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Skills that can be learned (Suggestions welcome!)

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Skills that can be learned (Suggestions welcome!)

Post by ChandlerF on Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:12 am

All of these skills are from SAO. They are measured /1000. After a player hits 1000/1000 they have "completed" or maxed out the skill set. These are not sword skills but ones you can upgrade by using the skill more.

-One Handed Sword
-Two Handed Sword
-One Handed Battleaxe
-Two Handed Battleaxe
-Two Handed Straight Sword
-One Handed Straight Sword
-One Handed Curved Blade
-Two Handed Curved Blade
-One Handed Rapier
-One Handed Dagger
-One Handed Assault Spear
-Two Handed Assault Spear
-One Handed War Hammer
-Two Handed War Hammer
-One Handed Mace
-Two Handed Mace
-Katana
-Hand to Hand Combat
-Dual Blades
-Light Metal Equipment
-Heavy Metal Equipment
-Lightweight Shield Equipment
-Heavyweight Shield Equipment
-Martial Arts
-Holy Sword
-Straining
-Blade Throwing
-Parry
-Battle Healing
-Searching
-Hiding
-Reveal
-Drug Mixing
-Leather Equipment
-Sprint
-Fighting Sprint
-Extended Weight Limit
-First Aid
-Fishing
-Familiar Recovery
-Familiar Communication (Beast Taming)
-Acrobatics
-Equipment Appraisal
-Tool Appraisal
-Purchase Negotiation
-Sales Negotiation
-Cooking
-Musical Instrument
-Sewing
-Slash Weapon Forging
-Thrust Weapon Forging
-Blunt Weapon Forging
-Light Metal Armor Forging
-Heavy Metal Armor Forging
-Metal Equipment Repairing
-Metal Refining
-Trap Making (Never clearly stated to be in SAO but it's easy to assume.)
-Night Vision (Same deal)

The following skills are my own ideas (Always being updated)

-Learning Advancement (Learn new skills faster)
-Last Breath (Upgraded strength when in red)
-Murder (Slightly increased damage towards other players) [Note: This could also be a helpful skill to have maxed out for the final boss, because it is technically a player]
-Hunter (Slightly increased damage towards mobs)
-Xray (Able to see other player's stats. You can see more the higher level it is.)
-Trap Seeking (Ability to see traps made by players. Higher levels allow seeking of natural traps like holes and dungeon traps before they go off.)


Last edited by Chandlerf on Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:10 pm; edited 5 times in total
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Re: Skills that can be learned (Suggestions welcome!)

Post by Ereselpe on Sat Aug 01, 2015 5:46 pm

Hi ! Quite an impressive list Smile I just eddited it and had a few suggestions of mine in it. Some of your list have been put into one (like Purchase Negotiation and Sales Negotiation become Negociation/Bargaining).

Combat skills:
Weapons:
-One Handed Sword
-Two Handed Sword
-One Handed Battleaxe
-Two Handed Battleaxe
-Two Handed Straight Sword
-One Handed Straight Sword
-One Handed Curved Blade
-Two Handed Curved Blade
-One Handed Rapier
-One Handed Dagger
-One Handed Assault Spear
-Two Handed Assault Spear
-One Handed War Hammer
-Two Handed War Hammer
-One Handed Mace
-Two Handed Mace
-Katana
-Hand to Hand Combat
-Dual Blades
-Martial Arts
-Blade Throwing
Armors:
-Light Metal Equipment
-Heavy Metal Equipment
-Lightweight Shield Equipment
-Heavyweight Shield Equipment
-Leather Equipment
Defense:
-Parry
-Taunting
Heals:
-Battle Healing
-First Aid
Familiars:
-Familiar Recovery
-Familiar Communication (Beast Taming)

Crafting skills:
Smithing :
-Slash Weapon Forging
-Thrust Weapon Forging
-Blunt Weapon Forging
-Light Metal Armor Forging
-Heavy Metal Armor Forging
-Metal Equipment Repairing
Alchemy:
-Drug Mixing
-Poison mixing
Goods transformation:
-Cooking
-Fishing
-Sewing
-Metal Refining
Utility skills:
-Negotiation
-Expertise
-Searching
-Tracking
-Hiding = Dissimulation
-Reveal = Detection
-Extended Weight Limit
-Sprint
-Fighting Sprint = Charge
-Acrobatics
Unique skills:
-Holy Sword

I think some of them should have as prerequisites another skill (for instance Katana need a certain a level in curved blade if I'm not mistaken).

Also, I have a few question by the meaning of Hand to hand combat vs Martial arts and Straining. Same about traps: can you describe a bit your ideas ?
About the skills you added yourself, I don't see a real purpose to them as skills without being unbalanced. Perhaps they can be used as bonuses on weapons/armor ?

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Re: Skills that can be learned (Suggestions welcome!)

Post by Owex on Sun Aug 02, 2015 11:14 am

Interesting lists! Something I'd like to point out is that we define Skill as an action that anyone can do but can be improved. An Ability is a new action that can only be learn from leveling a Skill. (Skill Tree)
Attribute also have a role on some of the skill, those are common in RPGs: Strength, Stamina, Agility, Resistance, Charisma, Intellect, Awareness, Luck
The rest is more like.. innate abilities that we don't really need to care about. (sprinting, walking, jumping, looting etc)

Also, let me share how we categorize skills:

Fighting Ability to handle weapons against opponents.
Wilderness Ability to survive in the wilderness.
Crafting Ability to create objects/items/structures.
Gathering Ability to collect resources.
Senses Ability to use your senses.
Acrobatics Ability to perform specialized maneuvers
Artistic Ability to create something unseen before.
Social Ability to communicate, charisma


First I'd change this:
-One Handed Sword
-Two Handed Sword
-One Handed Battleaxe
-Two Handed Battleaxe
-Two Handed Straight Sword
-One Handed Straight Sword
-One Handed Curved Blade
-Two Handed Curved Blade
-One Handed Rapier
-One Handed Dagger
-One Handed Assault Spear
-Two Handed Assault Spear
-One Handed War Hammer
-Two Handed War Hammer
-One Handed Mace
-Two Handed Mace

All that could be replaced by this:
-Straight Sword (always 1-handed)
-Long sword (always 2-handed)
-Curved Blade (always 1-handed)
-Rapier (always 1-handed)
-Dagger (always 1-handed)
-Spear (always 2-handed)


Also I think the difference between Hand to Hand Combat vs Martial Arts would be that the first one is about fist fighting and the second one is using fist/elbow/knee/feet to attack.

-Blade throwing (would be an Ability from the swords skill family)

-Light Metal Equipment
-Heavy Metal Equipment
-Lightweight Shield Equipment
-Heavyweight Shield Equipment
-Leather Equipment

I don't consider these as skills, anyone can wear whatever they want... BUT! the effectiveness of the equipment is based on Character stats such as Strength and Agility, etc.
So if you wear a Heavy Metal Armor, but your not strong enough your stamina will go down faster, or you may move slower.

Parrying will be an ability from the Blocking skill tree. Difference:
-Blocking: You stop the opponent's sword with yours and all the energy get into you and reduce your stamina.
-Parrying: You deviate the opponent's sword and no energy is absorbed.

I don't understand why Taunting is a defense skill... or why it is a skill at all actually. ^^

I would add "Crystal Crafting" to the Alchemist's skills (create teleport, healing crystal, etc) and "Alloying" as well (Create alloy of metals for blacksmiths to use to create better swords)

Sprint is not a skill, it is based on Stamina.. same for Fighting sprint.

"Extended Weight Limit" is based on your character's strength and stamina. (these are the two attribute you really want to work on when you begin your journey in SAO)

-Learning Advancement (Learn new skills faster) This is the Intellect attribute
-Last Breath (Upgraded strength when in red) Hmm.. we could make that as a Willpower attribute
-Murder (Slightly increased damage towards other players) [Note: This could also be a helpful skill to have maxed out for the final boss, because it is technically a player] No
-Hunter (Slightly increased damage towards mobs) Hunting is a skill set under the Wilderness category
-Xray (Able to see other player's stats. You can see more the higher level it is.) Would make that an Ability of the Detection skill
-Trap Seeking (Ability to see traps made by players. Higher levels allow seeking of natural traps like holes and dungeon traps before they go off.)Would put that in Hunting skill set

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Re: Skills that can be learned (Suggestions welcome!)

Post by ChandlerF on Sun Aug 02, 2015 11:28 am

I think Owex makes some good points but a lot of his ideas go to the reply on the post lol. I do love how you guys set this up! Thanks for helping me clear up how you guys planned to do this. I love seeing the team's ideas and plans.
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Re: Skills that can be learned (Suggestions welcome!)

Post by Ereselpe on Sun Aug 02, 2015 12:00 pm

Thank you for the response and clearing things up Smile Always nice to see the opinions of the dev team.
About Taunting, I see it not as a skill but more as an ability (?) for tank-like characters used in order to attract and keep the ennemies on them.

Edit:
I found the wiki page ( see here) with a skill list. On it, the idea of taunting is called "Howl".


Last edited by Ereselpe on Sun Aug 02, 2015 3:11 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Skills that can be learned (Suggestions welcome!)

Post by ChandlerF on Sun Aug 02, 2015 12:03 pm

Ah. Yes. I could see that being a really good strategy for players. Not a bad idea
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Re: Skills that can be learned (Suggestions welcome!)

Post by nickster701 on Mon Aug 03, 2015 4:56 am

Owex wrote:
Also, let me share how we categorize skills:

Fighting Ability to handle weapons against opponents.
Wilderness Ability to survive in the wilderness.
Crafting Ability to create objects/items/structures.
Gathering Ability to collect resources.
Senses Ability to use your senses.
Acrobatics Ability to perform specialized maneuvers
Artistic Ability to create something unseen before.
Social Ability to communicate, charisma


hope i cut that out right
anyway
this reminds me alot of the skill system in fallout 3, will you be adding points to these sections or the skills themselves
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Re: Skills that can be learned (Suggestions welcome!)

Post by Shad9000 on Mon Aug 03, 2015 6:27 am

Forgive me if Its obvious but I cant understand what the artistic skill does. Create something unseen before doesn't really explain much. So would someone who understands be so kind as to explain?
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Re: Skills that can be learned (Suggestions welcome!)

Post by Owex on Mon Aug 03, 2015 6:54 am

I haven't put a lot of thought on the Artistic category yet, but it is not a skill. Its just there to group up the artistic skills of the game like playing musical instrument or anything artistic really... I don't want to explain too much atm cause it's not designed yet.
Maybe... let's say if a blacksmith as some points in this Artistic category, he could be able to create weapons that are new and original. I don't know.. we could make it as an Attribute instead. We'll see.

To answer Nick, these are just category for us to sort all the skill we'll have. Nothing is planned about them for now. Maybe it could be matched with your Overall Level and just inform you which competence you have the more leveled up, etc..

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Re: Skills that can be learned (Suggestions welcome!)

Post by Ereselpe on Mon Aug 03, 2015 2:18 pm

Small idea about artistic "skills" Idea . For instance, music. We could see during History that music has an important part in warfare for several purposes: boosting the troops moral, organization, transmitting order, break the ennemies moral and so on. If we take that in consideration, a "Musical instrument"-like skill could be transfigured as a way to provide buff/debuff to a player party or ennemy respectively. I have seen on the forum some people who seemed to be more interessted in a support role, but, as magic is not present in this game, perhaps this could be an option for those players.

After, for others "artistic" skill, I don't see other use than housing.

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Re: Skills that can be learned (Suggestions welcome!)

Post by Owex on Mon Aug 03, 2015 2:54 pm

That's a very interesting idea.. but now I just imagine 2-3 trumpet player in the back of a boss room.. not really taking part in the fight. Yea they could buff stamina or strength, but they don't see the effect of it. They don't see the result of their action. It's good strategically, but gameplay wise I don't see it fit.
It's getting hard to get support role in SAO without magic and ranged weapons... and I'm a support player, that's the only role I play in every game, it would be a shame no to be able to support in SAO.
And just throwing Health Crystals at friendlies doesn't sounds fun to me.

-A good support role to me is risking his life as much as the players he save so they can fight.
-A bad support role is just staying in the back, not getting any aggro and just keeps doing the same ability over and over to heal from distance.

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Re: Skills that can be learned (Suggestions welcome!)

Post by Ereselpe on Mon Aug 03, 2015 3:06 pm

Yeah I completly see your point because I also generally play support in MMO. It is the main problem of my idea :s Strategicly interesting but boring gameplay wise.
As you said well, SAO is a non-traditional fantasy RPG by the absence of magic, even more with the non-presence of ranged attack (except perhaps throwing spears/javelins as the longer range weapon ?). So we have to adapt to be more in the fight Smile Should be an interessing experience !

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Re: Skills that can be learned (Suggestions welcome!)

Post by Zeffeng on Mon Aug 03, 2015 3:10 pm

Owex wrote:That's a very interesting idea.. but now I just imagine 2-3 trumpet player in the back of a boss room.. not really taking part in the fight. Yea they could buff stamina or strength, but they don't see the effect of it. They don't see the result of their action. It's good strategically, but gameplay wise I don't see it fit.
It's getting hard to get support role in SAO without magic and ranged weapons... and I'm a support player, that's the only role I play in every game, it would be a shame no to be able to support in SAO.
And just throwing Health Crystals at friendlies doesn't sounds fun to me.

-A good support role to me is risking his life as much as the players he save so they can fight.
-A bad support role is just staying in the back, not getting any aggro and just keeps doing the same ability over and over to heal from distance.

I think you could make a support role work in a more tanky utilty way like how supports mostly are in LoL if anyone plays it, so the supports would be CCing the enemy and physically walking in front of players to tank damage because they can and if they are to have buffs make it so they have to be close to the people they are buffing to make them move. This makes it so you can have a "bard" type character.

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Re: Skills that can be learned (Suggestions welcome!)

Post by ChandlerF on Mon Aug 03, 2015 3:12 pm

Almost no support role is propably one of the huge things that makes SAO boss fights so difficult. I think its a good challenge honestly.
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Re: Skills that can be learned (Suggestions welcome!)

Post by Ereselpe on Mon Aug 03, 2015 3:25 pm

I think you could make a support role work in a more tanky utilty way like how supports mostly are in LoL if anyone plays it, so the supports would be CCing the enemy and physically walking in front of players to tank damage because they can and if they are to have buffs make it so they have to be close to the people they are buffing to make them move. This makes it so you can have a "bard" type character

My idea was a bit based on this sterotype of a bard or skald type character, but honestly I don't see a tank, so wearing heavy armour and tower shield just take a flute/a lute and start playing in front of the boss... In those fights, they will sadly stay on the back for buffing only. Perhaps those tank can be given a ability like a war-cry giving a buff for those around him/her ?

Edit: Sorry I misread your post. Yeah, forcing bard-like player to be more in the fray could help solving the problem but how make it so not to be boring after a while ? Also, they will be more squishier, and without a healing system relying on dedicated healers die to the absence of magic, they will be a lot a risk and so a priority target logically.

Almost no support role is propably one of the huge things that makes SAO boss fights so difficult. I think its a good challenge honestly.
Totally aggreed. And this difficulty, requiring a good preparation, strategy and team spirit, is what can make SAO different from others MMO on the gender, giving it its uniqueness Very Happy

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Re: Skills that can be learned (Suggestions welcome!)

Post by Zeffeng on Mon Aug 03, 2015 3:36 pm

Ereselpe wrote:
I think you could make a support role work in a more tanky utilty way like how supports mostly are in LoL if anyone plays it, so the supports would be CCing the enemy and physically walking in front of players to tank damage because they can and if they are to have buffs make it so they have to be close to the people they are buffing to make them move. This makes it so you can have a "bard" type character

My idea was a bit based on this sterotype of a bard or skald type character, but honestly I don't see a tank, so wearing heavy armour and tower shield just take a flute/a lute and start playing in front of the boss... In those fights, they will sadly stay on the back for buffing only. Perhaps those tank can be given a ability like a war-cry giving a buff for those around him/her ?

Edit: Sorry I misread your post. Yeah, forcing bard-like player to be more in the fray could help solving the problem but how make it so not to be boring after a while ? Also, they will be more squishier, and without a healing system relying on dedicated healers die to the absence of magic, they will be a lot a risk and so a priority target logically.

I don't really think it would get boring but the "bard" character could be kinda like a monk tank in WoW where they wear leather and are more focused on dodging the attacks as opposed to tanking them but still holding aggro. To help tanks in fights an idea could to to give them an ability that makes them heal for more from all sources.

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Re: Skills that can be learned (Suggestions welcome!)

Post by Lubbies on Mon Aug 03, 2015 4:00 pm

Owex wrote:That's a very interesting idea.. but now I just imagine 2-3 trumpet player in the back of a boss room.. not really taking part in the fight. Yea they could buff stamina or strength, but they don't see the effect of it. They don't see the result of their action. It's good strategically, but gameplay wise I don't see it fit.

All I can imagine this being is just a couple guys playing a guitar hero type sequence and that would the challenge of the class. Laughing

Anyhow I think the only way I could see support being played is mitigating damage instead of healing. Defense boosting war cries, maybe like a damage funnel ability directing a portion of the damage done to your group towards you and hard CC would be very supportive, maybe like a blood lust howl to give all group members a life steal attack.

Support will be an interesting topic and I am excited to see how it turns out as I also thoroughly enjoy it.
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Re: Skills that can be learned (Suggestions welcome!)

Post by Ampersand on Mon Aug 03, 2015 5:47 pm

As for a purpose for the artistic skill maybe if a player was say good at smithing (or other form of crafting) and had a high artistic skill they could make models irl and have them added to the game some how as to make the item completely unique? And maybe you could then teach other people how to make that item as well?
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Re: Skills that can be learned (Suggestions welcome!)

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